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  1. #1
    Make My Day... NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown's Avatar
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    Proposed Changes to 1v1 (2 player) games

    First Player Advantage


    First player advantage in a 1v1 game has always been an issue. Marcos and I are testing out a hack to the current code that should help balance out 1v1 games.

    The new rule proposes that only for the first turn of the first player in a 2 player game, they will be able to deploy their troops, but not attack or reinforce.

    After that, the games plays out as normal.

    SUMMARY OF THE NEW 2 PLAYER GAME PROPOSAL

    Games Starts : Round 1

    Player 1 - First Turn
    1. Starts Turn
    2. Deploys Troops
    3. Ends Turn

    Player 2
    1. Starts Turn
    2. Deploys Troops
    3. Attacks
    4. Reinforces
    5. Ends Turn

    Round 2 : Game Continues as Normal

    In essence, this reverses the roles of first and second player, as attacker and defender. It allows the first player to build up their defences against the second player's attack.

    Once tested to see if it works, we plan to implement this new rules and observe the outcome for a couple months.

    Fortunately, our database contains every 1v1 game played on every map, so we know exactly what percentage the first player advantage has in a 1v1 game.

    (The full stats have been posted before in a thread somewhere in this forum, but I can't seem to find that thread at the moment)

    Nevertheless, in a couple months we will analyse the statistics and see what sort of impact this rule has in balancing out 1v1 games.

    Thanks!

    OTHER THREADS ON THE SAME TOPIC:

    https://www.majorcommand.com/forums/...st-Move-in-1v1

    https://www.majorcommand.com/forums/...-disadvantages
    Last edited by NewSheriffInTown; 02-11-2020 at 10:51 AM.

  2. #2
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor AuraCraft is on a distinguished road AuraCraft's Avatar
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    To prove this is not a solution I have run a trial but it was dismissed by staff.
    100 first turn games; I still won the majority; a % similar to the current figures, 60-66% ? The results were dismissed by staff.
    The roles were not reversed. If anything, player 1 gets to decide where player 2 can't take his 1st card, which will be the only available command. Player 2 then attacks somewhere else to get a card and player 1 takes the command coz player 2 didn't deploy there (tbh I didn't tell my opponents I was running an experiment. So like in any 2player game they felt they had to take a 1st turn card and indeed my deployment steered them away from where I didn't want them to deploy. Maybe if they realised they didn't need a card they might've deployed on the same location as I had, but in that case the logic behind this idea doesn't apply; turn 2 would just be a regular turn 1 with 6 additional units on both sides.


    The real problem is that player 1 has X units more than player 2 (throughout the game) where X = half the every turn bonus (terts divided by 3) so in a classic evolved game that's 3.
    Why?
    Turn 1, player 1: player 1 has 60+6=66 / player 2 = 60
    Turn 1, player 2: player 2 has 60+6=66 / player 2 = 60+6=66.
    Turn 1 average: player 1 has 66 / player 2 (60+66):2 = 63. A difference of 3 which is the only explanation for the first turn advantage.
    you'll find out in 2 months

    edit
    ps
    originial topic suggesting this solution
    Last edited by AuraCraft; 02-09-2020 at 10:46 PM.

  3. #3
    Make My Day... NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown's Avatar
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    Interesting..... So what do you suggest?

  4. #4
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor AuraCraft is on a distinguished road AuraCraft's Avatar
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    ty
    I suggest that in a 2p classic evolved game, the player who has the first turn starts with 3 instead of 6 units, then the game continues as usual. (so p2 gets 6 in turn 1, then p1 gets 6 in turn 2, so does p2 etc)
    so the player whose turn it is has the advantage, not the player who went first. that means on average, the advantages even out.

    or on a smaller map, when the (terts / 3) = 4, then p1 starts with 2 units instead of 4.
    on a larger map, when terts/3 = 8. then p1 starts with 4.
    Last edited by AuraCraft; 02-05-2020 at 06:45 PM.

  5. #5
    Make My Day... NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraCraft View Post
    ty
    I suggest that in a 2p classic evolved game, the player who has the first turn starts with 3 instead of 6 units, then the game continues as usual. (so p2 gets 6 in turn 1, then p1 gets 6 in turn 2, so does p2 etc)
    or on a smaller map, when the (terts / 3) = 4, then p1 starts with 2 units instead of 4.
    In that scenario, would player 1 still attack and reinforce?

  6. #6
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor AuraCraft is on a distinguished road AuraCraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewSheriffInTown View Post
    In that scenario, would player 1 still attack and reinforce?
    yes.

    since my measure already evens the odds, there's no reason to add further restrictions
    Last edited by AuraCraft; 02-05-2020 at 07:11 PM.

  7. #7
    Make My Day... NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown's Avatar
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    FYI, Here are the results of all games, all settings, including real-time which I will try exclude later:

    2nd Player % wins

    42.1 ~ Duck & Cover
    40.6 ~ NUKES!
    40.6 ~ 1984
    40.4 ~ Mesopotamia
    39.2 ~ Classic MINI
    38.4 ~ The British Isles
    38.3 ~ The Twelve Domains
    38.0 ~ USA
    37.6 ~ Classic Evolved
    36.3 ~ Conflict Africa
    36.2 ~ Australia
    36.1 ~ North America
    36.0 ~ Classic Antiquus
    35.8 ~ The Forgotten Kingdom
    35.8 ~ Sea Of Japan
    35.7 ~ Middle East
    35.7 ~ Classic Massive
    35.5 ~ South America
    35.5 ~ Balkan Peninsula
    35.4 ~ Cold War Europe
    35.2 ~ Far East Asia
    34.9 ~ Philippines
    34.8 ~ Mars
    34.7 ~ Rivals of Rome
    33.2 ~ Barbarossa
    32.4 ~ Mexican American War
    30.1 ~ Europe Massive

  8. #8
    Make My Day... NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraCraft View Post
    yes.

    since my measure already evens the odds, there's no reason to add such restrictions
    I have a feeling that a game with unlimited reinforcements would still give player 1 and advantage even with 1/2 the troops.

  9. #9
    Level 9: Highly Acclaimed Authority on the Subject riskyone commands your respect riskyone commands your respect riskyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewSheriffInTown View Post
    In that scenario, would player 1 still attack and reinforce?
    I have talked with AuraCraft about this. I believe this is a better solution then the first player deploy and end turn. It was a few months back, maybe longer. He added some great info in a forum thread on the subject. Some at first will think it's unusual because we haven't been playing that way, but I'm all for evening out the first player advantage and this is the best idea I have heard yet. BTW, I'm in a game that went to a side game of -1, are there unofficial rules to -1. Right now I'm in a game where I wasn't able to get under my prior troop count. What is the suggested resolution.

  10. #10
    Level 9: Highly Acclaimed Authority on the Subject riskyone commands your respect riskyone commands your respect riskyone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewSheriffInTown View Post
    FYI, Here are the results of all games, all settings, including real-time which I will try exclude later:

    2nd Player % wins

    42.1 ~ Duck & Cover
    40.6 ~ NUKES!
    40.6 ~ 1984
    40.4 ~ Mesopotamia
    39.2 ~ Classic MINI
    38.4 ~ The British Isles
    38.3 ~ The Twelve Domains
    38.0 ~ USA
    37.6 ~ Classic Evolved
    36.3 ~ Conflict Africa
    36.2 ~ Australia
    36.1 ~ North America
    36.0 ~ Classic Antiquus
    35.8 ~ The Forgotten Kingdom
    35.8 ~ Sea Of Japan
    35.7 ~ Middle East
    35.7 ~ Classic Massive
    35.5 ~ South America
    35.5 ~ Balkan Peninsula
    35.4 ~ Cold War Europe
    35.2 ~ Far East Asia
    34.9 ~ Philippines
    34.8 ~ Mars
    34.7 ~ Rivals of Rome
    33.2 ~ Barbarossa
    32.4 ~ Mexican American War
    30.1 ~ Europe Massive
    Far East Asia is a lot lower on the list then I expected. I also thought Classic Massive and Balkans would be right above Europe massive.

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