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  1. #21
    Level 11: Commanding General of Everything. Don't ask, just listen. I'm at 11. ndrm31 commands your respect ndrm31 commands your respect ndrm31's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NewSheriffInTown View Post
    In that scenario, would player 1 still attack and reinforce?
    I like it the way that it is, at least in tourney finals u can sspli the pot
    NAMASTE

  2. #22
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor AuraCraft is on a distinguished road AuraCraft's Avatar
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    @periwinkle; it's probly too confusing if there are different rules for different maps
    Last edited by AuraCraft; 02-07-2020 at 09:25 PM.

  3. #23
    Level 3: Occasional Commentator EasyToKill is on a distinguished road EasyToKill's Avatar
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    I have no problem changing rules as an OPTION. But I agree that having different rules on different maps can be confusing.

  4. #24
    Forum Moderator and All Knowing God. Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule's Avatar
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    I agree with Easy. Making rule changes as an option for the person starting the game is fine, but I'm 100% diametrically opposed to a blanket change of ANY kind.
    "And if you don't give up and don't give in, you may just be OK" ~ Mike and the Mechanics "The Living Years"

  5. #25
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor AuraCraft is on a distinguished road AuraCraft's Avatar
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    Any such experiment requires significant figures to base conclusions on.
    How much is that? a (few) thousand games? We won't get such figures in a a few months like Sheriff has in mind "if the person starting the game" needs to choose to participate.
    Even a fantastic new map like Land Rush couldn't persuade ppl to play more than 337 beta games.
    So if a choice would be offered, perhaps the default setting could be deploy only in the 1st turn, would that be a satisfactory solution for you?

    The 100 games trial that I did showed that if opponents were not aware of the setting, that would be in my favor if I played a deploy only 1st turn... so personally I would be in favor of a "blanket cover"

    A lot of real time players Ive spoken to told me they really wanted something done; my solution, Sheriff's solution, anything. A dozen said they'd leave the site coz of the 61/39 ratio.

    Only the first turn is affected it's not a big deal imho
    Last edited by AuraCraft; 02-08-2020 at 11:25 PM.

  6. #26
    Level 3: Occasional Commentator LotsOFFLuck is on a distinguished road LotsOFFLuck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraCraft View Post
    Any such experiment requires significant figures to base conclusions on.
    How much is that? a (few) thousand games? We won't get such figures in a a few months like Sheriff has in mind "if the person starting the game" needs to choose to participate.
    Even a fantastic new map like Land Rush couldn't persuade ppl to play more than 337 beta games.
    So if a choice would be offered, perhaps the default setting could be deploy only in the 1st turn, would that be a satisfactory solution for you?

    The 100 games trial that I did showed that if opponents were not aware of the setting, that would be in my favor if I played a deploy only 1st turn... so personally I would be in favor of a "blanket cover"

    A lot of real time players Ive spoken to told me they really wanted something done; my solution, Sheriff's solution, anything. A dozen said they'd leave the site coz of the 61/39 ratio.

    Only the first turn is affected it's not a big deal imho
    If a "choice were offered", as in you can make it a setting when setting up a game, I'd be in favor of that. But a forced, blanket change (as cards called it) is unnecessary and a terrible idea.

  7. #27
    Forum Moderator and All Knowing God. Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraCraft View Post
    Any such experiment requires significant figures to base conclusions on.
    How much is that? a (few) thousand games? We won't get such figures in a a few months like Sheriff has in mind "if the person starting the game" needs to choose to participate.
    Even a fantastic new map like Land Rush couldn't persuade ppl to play more than 337 beta games.
    So if a choice would be offered, perhaps the default setting could be deploy only in the 1st turn, would that be a satisfactory solution for you?

    The 100 games trial that I did showed that if opponents were not aware of the setting, that would be in my favor if I played a deploy only 1st turn... so personally I would be in favor of a "blanket cover"

    A lot of real time players Ive spoken to told me they really wanted something done; my solution, Sheriff's solution, anything. A dozen said they'd leave the site coz of the 61/39 ratio.

    Only the first turn is affected it's not a big deal imho
    Default setting being first turn only deploys and can't attack doesn't work for me. As an OPTION that can be used in setting up the game, yes. But I'm against changing the default settings.
    "And if you don't give up and don't give in, you may just be OK" ~ Mike and the Mechanics "The Living Years"

  8. #28
    Level 6: Prominent Opinion haWD96lz is on a distinguished road haWD96lz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraCraft View Post
    Any such experiment requires significant figures to base conclusions on.
    How much is that? a (few) thousand games? We won't get such figures in a a few months like Sheriff has in mind "if the person starting the game" needs to choose to participate.
    Even a fantastic new map like Land Rush couldn't persuade ppl to play more than 337 beta games.
    So if a choice would be offered, perhaps the default setting could be deploy only in the 1st turn, would that be a satisfactory solution for you?

    The 100 games trial that I did showed that if opponents were not aware of the setting, that would be in my favor if I played a deploy only 1st turn... so personally I would be in favor of a "blanket cover"

    A lot of real time players Ive spoken to told me they really wanted something done; my solution, Sheriff's solution, anything. A dozen said they'd leave the site coz of the 61/39 ratio.

    Only the first turn is affected it's not a big deal imho
    The way to figure out if a change made a difference is to run enough experiments. To understand that you can use the binomial distribution. To be simple we can assume a 50/50 proposition since its close enough to the numbers are are talking about. What we need is sigma in terms of a percentage for both the current data set sheriff has and any new data set that is created. 100 games gets you sigma = ~5%, 1000 games sigma = ~2% and 10,000 games gets sigma = 0.7%.

    How many new setting games we need depends on how big an impact the settings changes have and the exact mean and sigma of the current data set. My guess from what sheriff has shown is the current data set has a mean of about 63% and probably have 10,000+ games. Lets assume sigma is 0.5 for it. So that means there is a 95% chance the real mean is 62-64%. There is a 99.7% chance its between 61.5 and 64.5%.

    Now the new data set needs to have a low enough chance of its mean overlapping with the current mean. If the setting changes get us to a true mean of 55% first turn wins then probably 1000 games are more than enough since the range we would land in is likely 51-59% though 100 is not since the range is 45-65% and that overlaps with the other true mean, but if the true mean is 60% its going to take a ton of games to make sure the changes are real.

    I did a few quick and dirty things here since I used a two direction distribution and we can probably use a one direction, which should lower the number of games needed somewhat. Happy to sharpen my pencil and help.

    Though do note since each map has a different 1 v 1 chance it might be best to try any experiment on a single map, but it makes the stats harder.

  9. #29
    Forum Moderator and All Knowing God. brianstheman is on a distinguished road brianstheman's Avatar
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    Aura, you and I can probably do fifty 1v1s ourselves

    That's 1/20th of Hawd's proposed 1000 game sample size.

  10. #30
    Level 1: Faint Background Noise MNatt is on a distinguished road MNatt's Avatar
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    For what it's worth:
    1. If you're going to change the rules, best to do it for all 2v2 games imo.
    2. The idea of having a reduced number of reinforcements sounds the preferable option to me.
    3. Can't you introduce it for a trial period - say a month. By the end of the month players would be able to form an informed view on whether they like it or not.

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