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  1. #1
    Level 0: Shadowy Lurker MadMax14 is on a distinguished road MadMax14's Avatar
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    Bidding System for 1st Move in 1v1

    On most 1v1 maps, this game is usually decided by who goes first. I believe I have won about 99% of the time when I get the first move, and lost maybe 80% of the time if I go second. Going first currently is the biggest factor in any 1v1 game. In chats with many of you, I get that most agree.

    To make it fair, a bidding system should be initiated. It would work like this:
    Both players enter a game. They then both place a bid on how many extra units they would need to go second. So if Player A bids 5 and Player B bids 4, Player A would go first. Then, on Player B's turn, they would get 4 extra units deployed. If both players bid is the same, then either let them re-bid or randomly select.

    Other site use this system, and their ranking system is much fairer and based on skill, not luck.

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Make My Day... NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown commands your respect NewSheriffInTown's Avatar
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    Good idea, thanks. We'll keep that in mind.

    There is definitely a need to improve the 1v1 games and this could be used as a viable option.

    Thanks.

  3. #3
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor Roscokov is on a distinguished road Roscokov's Avatar
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    If you're rolling dice it's always luck...

    don't let anyone tell you different

  4. #4
    Moderator ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON's Avatar
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    This is actually a really good idea! Of course Rosko is right, luck is a huge variable in this game, but skill plays a definite part and this might shift the dynamic a bit away from luck and towards skill.

  5. #5
    Forum Moderator and All Knowing God. Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule is a glorious beacon of light Cardinalsrule's Avatar
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    I like it a lot, as an optional setting.
    "And if you don't give up and don't give in, you may just be OK" ~ Mike and the Mechanics "The Living Years"

  6. #6
    Level 6: Prominent Opinion TormentaBANNED is on a distinguished road TormentaBANNED's Avatar
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    The first turn is important but I find more important the initial automatic deployment of troops. I have no problem with going 2nd and it is possible to change the tide or that your rival's first turn is not too good.

    But for example yesterday my rival began first with all oceania but one territory, surrounded by a barrier of 6 troops in Antarctica and Asia, and I hadn't good options anywhere.

    Of course in the games that I have that kind of advantage I don't complain, but the result is fixed from the beginning. So if we talk about making the 1vs1 fairer I think we should talk about that, not only turns.

  7. #7
    Level 8: Renowned Expert F15FreeEagle has good things to say F15FreeEagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinalsrule View Post
    I like it a lot, as an optional setting.

    Yep, what he said.

  8. #8
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor sundicekid deserves your respect sundicekid's Avatar
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    I usually avoid 1v1's for the 1st turn advantage reason - but, I don't think the bidding idea will go over too well. It adds another level of 'slow down' for people who may be new, only have 4 games with none started, then when it finally does start they don't know what they should bid, so they lose interest and go away.

    Another possibility is to just mimic actual board play. If you play Risk on a board - the 2 players would roll the dice to see who goes first.

    So, why not have the game do that - the game picks randomly who rolls the dice 1st, which makes no difference, because it's the dice that decide who goes 1st, not who rolled them first.

    That gets people into action right off the bat.

    So, whoever has the highest dice - has 1st turn. It's unlikely that both people would roll 3 sixes, but I guess in that 1 in a gazillion chance there could be a tie breaker, but I wouldn't bother with that chance till 6 sixes was an issue.

    Seems like the Dice deciding might be easier in the Coding too.

    Simple is best.

  9. #9
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor Roscokov is on a distinguished road Roscokov's Avatar
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    I think you are overthinking it there sundice...

    The turn order is already randomly generated...showing someone a seperate dice graphic to represent a process that is already happening might provide justification for some but would only be a cosmetic change really? (i'm guessing)

    I think the random troop generation is actually pretty sound as well at the moment...i play a fair few games(ahem) and it's seems reasonable to me the amount of times "unfair" drops show up.

    If you wanna shift the dynamic towards skill, I think as sheriff says fixed force is the option...when we are rolling dice "luck" is the main factor - obviously the skill lies in giving yourself the best odds and that's why certain people keep winning but I don't think we want to reduce that effect really.

    I actually quite like the bidding for first/second turn idea but then for me it becomes a different game (like fixed force),also, I can only imagine the amount of moaning there would be about peoples bidding strategies

  10. #10
    Level 7: Distinguished Contributor Dalinar is on a distinguished road Dalinar's Avatar
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    This would work but would give knowledgeable players a pretty big advantage - you'd eliminate first turn advantage and people who how to value the 1st turn given deploy size (and there is an approximate mathematical answer) would have more of an advantage. I suppose I should be in favor of that since that's probably me, but I favor just giving the second player that answer as an automatic bonus - we don't need to advantage those can do math even more.

    And Rosco/Sheriff, I find first turn advantage at least as bad with fixed force. I've played enough Th and Dorcee in FF 1v1s to know against good players it's basically an extended execution for the person going 2nd. The 1st player gets an advantage and it's easy enough to hold onto it. Surprise, surprise, it takes a lot of luck to overcome (on the drop or cards). Fixed force also eliminates the advantage to attacking of the current game, which I find an important strategic element.

    But, I'd sure take it over the current standard 1v1. Keep it an optional setting and then you don't have newbies betting against officers.

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