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  1. #11
    Level 3: Occasional Commentator LonBon is on a distinguished road LonBon's Avatar
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    While Wid's idea works, I think as long as you have to play at least one real game, there isn't a problem with opening up the non-ranked option to everyone.
    To secure peace is to prepare for war.

  2. #12
    Level 8: Renowned Expert AAFitz deserves your respect AAFitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
    I'd like to see some kind of "friendly" game option, but i really don't like the idea of putting caps or quotas on playing features. If somebody is going to pay to use the site, they shouldn't have to watch how many of this or that they can access... features are features. And how would you police a quota - have a squad watching to make sure somebody is playing for points? Automatically take points away? That's no good.

    Wid's notion of allowing clan-only practice games is a great idea, as it allows for "friendlies" among folks who know each other. It doesn't give the option to new players, but really, how many new players are more concerned about their points than they are about just getting into a game? Obsessing over your score usually comes later, after you've gotten a few wins behind you.
    I agree the idea of someone counting how many no point games someone is playing is ridiculous and was suggesting it could be programmed in that you could only play a certain number. And it would still be a feature. Being able to play 10 or 20 no scoring games is a feature, just as playing a certain number of real time games is a feature, and just as premiums and freebies are allowed different features. The basic premise is that they are practice games, and the idea is simply a limit to protect against server overload and abuse by people playing an insane amount of games. The number is arbitrary, and debatable, but I think you would find a limit of some kind would inherently be needed. The point system, in some ways protects against that, because they are at least held accountable for playing too many games, and not making turns, by losing points. In practice games, almost nothing would make them make their turns, because there is not really any penalty for it, so limiting the number of games a deadbeat player might be able to ruin every month for other players, very much does make sense, if you actually think about it.

    The idea isnt just meant for new players, though I imagine many may very well be concerned about their score. It would allow everyone to play on the site at any given time, without score issues whatsoever, kind of like a friendly game of poker as opposed to a high stakes game of poker. Playing both is nice, but sometimes you simply prefer one over the other.
    Last edited by AAFitz; 07-16-2011 at 12:37 AM.

  3. #13
    Studio Production Manager Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd's Avatar
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    i fully understood your comment, AAFitz - players could indeed be given a hard cap on number of practice games, but as I said I don't like caps on features available to paying members. If a feature is good enough to include on the site, I don't think we should tease somebody with a cap on how often they can use that feature. Game maximums for players who are non-paying is a different matter. And server overload shouldn't be taken into consideration - we're going to have users playing ridonkulous of real games, so if the server can't handle that we've got bigger problems.

    My comment regarding policing users was about establishing a quota - a minimum number of for-points games that somebody suggested (but seems to have been edited out of this thread). I think we all would agree that equiring a user to do something to maintain their ranking is bad practice.

    But I completely agree that we do need some kind of check on no-points games. I appreciate your comment about how easy it would be to abandon games. Other issues will be players not taking them seriously and going on rampages/losing on purpose, and cheating. On the one hand you aren't losing points so you don't care, but I don't think we want to create a gaming arena in which abuse and cheating are tolerated.

    Again, I think Widowmakers' proposal of only allowing Friendlies to be played within a clan can address the abuse problem; Joe User is less likely to make a mockery of the game if his opponents are people he wants to stay on good terms with.

    As an extension to Widowmaker's idea, what if every new player was automatically invited to join a New Players Clan? Once in the clan you could play friendlies with other new players - or play regular points games against competition that was as new as yourself. In order to join another competitive clan, however, you'd have to leave New Players. And there could be a Clan admin monitoring users to make sure nobody lingered too long.
    When sorrows come they come not in single spies, but in battalions.

  4. #14
    Senior Cartographer WidowMakers is a glorious beacon of light WidowMakers is a glorious beacon of light WidowMakers is a glorious beacon of light WidowMakers's Avatar
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    or....

    # of points games currently playing in = MAX # of NO points games that you can play

    Free Player = 4 games MAX so......
    2 points = 2 no points
    3 points = 3 no points BUT since it is capped at 4 then only 1 no point allowed.
    for paying UNLIMITED games

    12 points = MAX 12 no points
    40 points = MAX 40 no points
    123 points = MAX 123 no points
    etc,etc

    But I still like the Clan Only option.
    -Practice for the sake of learning a map is really in my opinion what this is needed for.
    -clan team building testing (who playes well with who)
    -clan recruitment (can a player make it in our clan on our fav maps) ,etc
    There are reasons why this is need more than anything IMO.

  5. #15
    Boss General (Retired on a Desert Island) Badorties is a name known to all Badorties is a name known to all Badorties is a name known to all Badorties is a name known to all Badorties's Avatar
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    What about a quota of 5% or 10% of finished games. If you have finished 100 games, you can join/start 10 practice games. If you have reached the quota then you have to finish another ten games first.

  6. #16
    Studio Production Manager Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WidowMakers View Post
    But I still like the Clan Only option.
    me too. Creating formulas is just going to lead to future circular discussions about how to improve upon/change the formula.

    No love for my New Users Clan idea? There's a lot of potential there for teaching and learning in a low-risk/high rewards environment.
    When sorrows come they come not in single spies, but in battalions.

  7. #17
    Senior Cartographer WidowMakers is a glorious beacon of light WidowMakers is a glorious beacon of light WidowMakers is a glorious beacon of light WidowMakers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shepherd View Post
    me too. Creating formulas is just going to lead to future circular discussions about how to improve upon/change the formula.

    No love for my New Users Clan idea? There's a lot of potential there for teaching and learning in a low-risk/high rewards environment.
    I did not say i did not like it. lol
    I said in general clans only so your new users clan would fall into that .
    And I guess that it needs to be made known,
    NO MEDALS, AWARDS, SCORES, RECOGNITIONS, ETC will be counted from any NO POINTS game.
    so if a player wants to pay $20 for unlimited NO points games and never get on the scoreboard, then so be it.

    And to deter from people making games and dead beating,
    Regular Play
    -You can only play in no points games after you hav complete 50 regular games
    -if you deadbeat X NO points games in Y days, you are not allowed to play or make one for Z days. (we can adjust X,Y,Z)
    Clan Play (regardless of type of clan)
    -Anything goes as many as you want (# of NPG determined by user game count allowance)
    MAN, we are on an Acronym fest here lately,
    CUDO, UDO, MOD, DOG, NPG, DOS, etc

  8. #18
    Moderator ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON is a name known to all ORBOTRON's Avatar
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    I'm on board with the Clan only idea, it's just simpler. The New Players Clan is awesome, as it resolves a few issues that have been around for a while. It helps avoid farming, it creates a safe, non-hostile environment for noobs, I really think it could help with new player retention, giving them more one-on-one mentoring type help, it promotes community by getting people involved in Clans. I'd nominate somebody like an Ambassador, or all of them, to be Admin for a clan like that. The invite could be included in their welcome.

  9. #19
    Level 3: Occasional Commentator LonBon is on a distinguished road LonBon's Avatar
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    Yeah, I didn't think about the possibility of abuse of the system, just that it'd be awesome to have. I like Wid's idea of the # of real games = # of unranked games, and then giving no recognition for the unranked games. But then someone mentioned the problem of people not caring because the game doesn't count, so they cheat and and miss turns. Maybe AWOL players are eliminated, or only allow people to play with others in their friend list (playing with my friends is what inspired this post in the first place), or clan only like was said before... I don't know, just throwing some new ideas out here and mulching up old ones, feel free to tear it up.
    To secure peace is to prepare for war.

  10. #20
    Studio Production Manager Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd is a name known to all Shepherd's Avatar
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    we could solve the entire problem by saying that one missed turn in a Friendly takes you straight to AWOL, and there's no coming back... no waiting around for three days for a player to miss repeated turns. That way we wouldn't need to create any new limits, minimum requirements, or consequences.
    When sorrows come they come not in single spies, but in battalions.

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